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JAMESEG

I am a very ecumenical Christian who seeks to love everyone.
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Barack Obama -- Evaluating the President's First 3 Years -- Includes POLL

Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:11 PM EST
politics, obama, barack-obama, president-obama, evaluating-obamas-first-three-years, president-obamas-first-three-years
By jameseg

Live Poll

Overall, how do you grade President Obama's performance during his first three years as President?

View Results
  • 175890
    Excellent, an A
    16%
  • 175891
    Good, a B.
    38%
  • 175892
    Average, a C.
    6%
  • 175893
    Below Average, a D.
    8%
  • 175894
    Terrible, a F.
    32%

VoteTotal Votes: 388

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How is President Obama doing after three years in office?  

Economy 

After increasing substantially during the opening months of his Presidency, the official United States unemployment rate has declined fairly steadily for over two years. But it has been a slow decline. Millions still remain unemployed, some for years, and the official national unemployment rate remains higher than when Obama took office according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics*. Perhaps even more important, many of the unemployed seem to be discouraged and sitting at home instead of doing something constructive like actively looking for work, doing volunteer work, etc. 

Obama has failed on his commitment to cut the huge budget deficits of George W. Bush. Indeed, the deficit this year is expected to be about $1.3 trillion dollars, and the national debt has increased dramatically during Obama’s first three years in office. Indeed, much of the drop in the unemployment rate can probably be credited to the deficit spending to “buy” jobs. If the deficits aren’t cut, we may face problems similar in some aspects to those Greece is currently facing in the future. Our short term gain can lead to long term pain if we don’t make changes. 

Obama’s bailout of GM seems to have worked out better than perhaps even his supporters expected. However, for those of us who would like to see a progression toward electric and hybrid vehicles, as well as more use of mass transit, GM’s success is not all positive. 

On balance, the economy has shown some improvement in recent years, but it remains fragile and a worse recession can come unless the huge budget deficits are cut. 

International Issues 

Obama has improved international relations compared to George W. Bush. Bush had managed to offend many even among our nation’s allies. 

However, Obama failed on his commitment to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, and many prisoners remain held without being tried. He missed his timetable on withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq. And now that they have finally basically been withdrawn, conditions there seem to be much worse than he claimed he would leave them in when U.S. troops withdrew. 

As promised, Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan, before seeking to reduce troops there. Results in Afghanistan have been questionable. 

Obama fulfilled a commitment to seek to kill or capture Osama Bin Laden. But Bin Laden’s death in Pakistan doesn’t seem to have reduced the world terror threat. And many, including me, feel that Bin Laden could have been captured by Special Forces just as quickly or maybe even quicker (and with fewer innocent lives being lost) without the use of thousands of ground forces and bombing by drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan. 

Perhaps even more important in some ways, in recent months the U.S. has announced arms deals and plans for such deals with other countries (Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc.) that may cause major problems in the future if those nations’ current or future leaders use them for the wrong purposes. The short term jobs created for private companies contracting with the Defense Department and the good relations with the countries receiving the weapons are not worth the long term risks in my opinion. This could have the biggest negative long term impact of any of Obama’s decisions on international issues. 

Moral Issues 

The President has retained his pro-choice view on abortion and his support for homosexuals. He probably hasn’t been as active in supporting these issue as the liberals would like, but he has succeeded in offending those (including me) who oppose abortion and same-sex marriage. 

Health Care   

Obama did implement a health care reform plan as promised. Many of its effects remain to be seen. To get support for it from the health care industry, he provided them benefits up front, and in an effort to cover everyone, he instituted a plan that many economists say is not feasible over the long term. And the requirement for everyone to buy private health insurance may be unconstitutional. On balance, I feel Obama had good intentions, but in an effort to please enough people to get the votes for passage, he created a plan that is economically unfeasible and unconstitutional. 

If as expected the Republicans take control of Congress in 2012, Republicans and conservative Democrats may throw the entire plan out, both the good and bad aspects of it. Personally, I think his plan will either be repealed or ruled entirely unconstitutional before the final aspects of it are implemented.  

Environmental Issues 

Obama has made progress on some issues compared to the Bush administration. But he has not taken the strong steps that environmentalists would have liked to reduce oil drilling, coal mining, and natural gas exploration and to increase use of mass transit. 

Conclusions 

Some negatives: The federal budget deficit remains huge. The unemployment rate remains high. Military spending remains exorbitant, and Iraq and Afghanistan seem unstable. Our relations with Iran’s government may be even worse than they were under Bush, which is saying a lot. The health care reform plan seems economically unfeasible and unconstitutional. And the President’s stance on moral issues offends many. 

Some positives:  If his assumptions come to be, the budget deficits will drop in upcoming years. The unemployment rate is dropping, most troops are out of Iraq and plans are to withdraw those in Afghanistan. Also, Obama basically did what he said he would do on health care and moral issues, which if not good is at least being true to his word. 

But, the long term effect of Obama’s policies remains to be seen. As a conservative on fiscal and moral issues, I give Obama a failing grade for his huge budget deficits, military spending, and views on same-sex marriage and abortion. Liberals would likely grade him much higher. As a liberal on environmental and social issues, I give Obama a B for his above average efforts on those things. He has sought to improve the environment and improve the social safety net, though I’d prefer he did much more and in a more economically justifiable way. I’ll give him an overall grade of D, which is below average, but better than the F I give George W. Bush (tax cuts to the rich, huge military spending, and big budget deficits, starting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and a poor record on environmental and social issues, etc., though I credit Bush for his opposition to abortion.). 

Some can say Obama inherited problems from Bush, which is true. But Obama promised during his campaign in 2008 to correct those problems, and thus far he hasn’t done so very well overall, as I see it. Thus, Obama gets an overall grade of D from me.

 

END NOTES:

* Unemployment Rate (Monthly, 2002-2012); Databases, Tables & Calculations; Bureau of Labor Statistics; United States Department of Labor. http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 (Webpage accessed February 13, 2012.)

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  • Public Discussion (182)
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jameseg

What do you think of Obama's performance thus far?

Please feel free to respectfully post your own views on this.

But, please avoid making personal attacks that violate the Newsvine Code of Honor. Also, please avoid using "obscene" or "vulgar" language that violates the Newsvine User Agreement. Thanks!

  • 12 votes
#1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:16 PM EST
Polka14

He did sign the NDAA into law, codifying the use of military force on American soil to send Americans labeled as "terrorists" to prison camps without legal representation, trial or charges for indefinite detention and for the purposes of torture and execution.

Because he swore to protect the Constitution, I would give him a "T" for Traitor.

  • 18 votes
#1.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:58 PM EST
jameseg

Polka14, I share your strong opposition to the National Defense Authorization Act and feel it is unconstitutional. But I personally wouldn't use the word traitor to describe Obama's action.

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:09 AM EST
Polka14

He swore to protect the Constitution and then signed an act into law that destroys our Bill of Rights. If that is not the action of the traitor then no action is.

  • 12 votes
#1.3 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:13 AM EST
TooManyPuppies

he fought the ndaa, he fought to remove the provision on american citizens and then issued a signing statement saying he didnt think it said it was constitutional to target american citizens with the law. IT WAS REPUBLICANS DEMANDING IT STAY IN. They ended up passing it with a VETO PROOF majority.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/02/white-house-veto-indefinite-detention_n_1126399.html

www.politicususa.com/en/obama-ndaa-statement

  • 18 votes
#1.4 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:18 AM EST
jameseg

They ended up passing it with a VETO PROOF majority.

TooManyPuppies, that may be the case, but Obama signed it into law without them needing to override his veto. And even if Obama's administration doesn't abuse it (questionable), future ones may. I'm not as satisfied with the changes made to it before its passage as he was.

NationalJournal article

Your two links in comment #1.4 didn't work for some reason. below I repeat them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/02/white-house-veto-indefinite-detention_n_1126399.html

http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-ndaa-statement (This article does nicely explain Obama's logic behind signing the bill.)

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:24 AM EST
Polka14

I would have vetoed it but he did not and he signed it on New Years when no one would pay the attention to politics. I don't believe that he was against it. The Democrats and Republicans are the same authoritarian types. They hate freedoms and want to see the Bill of Rights completely destroyed. And now they have since January, 1. NDAA overrules the Bill of Rights and our fifth Amendment rights. Without it, our other freedoms are gone too.

  • 11 votes
#1.6 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:26 AM EST
Caryl S. Foster

One would think the word "treason" would apply to American Terrorists and not the President. Perhaps it depends on whether or not you or someone you know has been terrorized.

  • 7 votes
#1.7 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:24 AM EST
bondibox

This article was much more even handed than I thought it would be... but it does make some unsubstantiated claims and has omission in perspective.

First of all, you claim (as do countless rightwing pundits) that

a worse recession can come unless the huge budget deficits are cut.

But that wasn't the mantra 8 years ago. Back then the mantra was "deficits don't matter." So you're really going to have to show us how deficits automatically create recessions. Because if you ask me, it's the trade deficit that matters 10x more than the budget deficit. The government can have all the surplus in the world but if we run an outstanding trade deficit the economy is still going to go straight down the crapper.

And you really can't discuss the deficit in perspective without describing how Bush spent all that money on the Iraq war, off the budget. All things being equal, Obama increased the deficit on day one simply by chalking up the actual cost of the war.

Finally, re: Healthcare you claim that Obama

instituted a plan that many economists say is not feasible over the long term

This is news to me. What part of the ACA is economically unfeasible? Please, no sweeping generalizations here.

  • 10 votes
#1.8 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:42 AM EST
Davy-755715

When it comes to the economy, figuratively Americans decided to paint the basement stairs, and descended as they did. This means we've wanted nearly every conceivable government program, including the real "piece of resistance" for the elderly, our checks and medical benefits regardless of need. Then we whine like spoiled kids when asked to pay for it all. Does Newt and his "moon base" sound familiar? This is the situation Obama is in, and he's managing it as good as it can be managed. Giving us fat kids more ice cream and cake is the GOP's answer, and it's dumb.

Obama 2012.

  • 9 votes
#1.9 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:16 AM EST
Ms CYPRAH

Good poll, James....I voted B, because I felt he didn't stand up to the Republicans' obstructionist tactics enough. He needed to have given greater leadership there. But the guy has tried his best to deal with a terrible economy and I applaud him for it.

At least he has been focusing on jobs, and the country, instead of people's bodies and their bedrooms!!

  • 8 votes
#1.10 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:18 AM EST
Thinknaboutit

He did sign the NDAA into law, codifying the use of military force on American soil to send Americans labeled as "terrorists" to prison camps without legal representation, trial or charges for indefinite detention and for the purposes of torture and execution.

As unhappy as we all are about the NDAA, let's put it in perspective instead of letting emotion get the better of us. NOTHING prevented the use of military force on American soil before the NDAA and NOTHING prevented the government from indefinately detaining American citizens either. We already have examples of both of these throughout our history. Those who argue that the president should have vetoed a bill that had a veto proof majority supporting it are seeking symbolic gestures instead of real solutions.

As for the poll, B. Obama has mostly been the centrist I expected, but is too concerned with compromising.

  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:59 AM EST
Polka14

Those who argue that the president should have vetoed a bill that had a veto proof majority

All Congressmen/women that voted for NDAA should have been arrested for treason. The authors of the NDAA that authorizes the violations of the law should have been arrested for treason. And the President should have been arrested for treason for signing it into law. Violating the Constitution and our freedoms should be seen as treasonous acts against the American People.

  • 7 votes
#1.12 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST
jameseg

And you really can't discuss the deficit in perspective without describing how Bush spent all that money on the Iraq war, off the budget.

Regarding the above quote from bondibox's comment #1.8:

I address that in my comment #13.6 below.

Both the budget deficit and the trade deficit are important. If the budget deficit didn't matter, the goverment could just print trillions of dollars in paper money and give it out to everyone, but inflation would be rampant and the dollar would be virtually worthless.

Personally, I was very critical of the huge budget deficits under Bush. But Obama's are even larger.

  • 5 votes
#1.13 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:41 PM EST
jameseg

NOTHING prevented the use of military force on American soil before the NDAA and NOTHING prevented the government from indefinately detaining American citizens either.

Thinknaboutit, the above quote from your comment #1.11 (and the rest of your comment) contain a lot of truth. Sadly, our human rights have often been abused in the past.

As one example, President Lincoln did much iin violation of basic human rights to keep control of the country during the Civil War. And the way many slaves were treated in the South was even worse. But, the end does not justify the means in my opinion.

  • 3 votes
#1.14 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:46 PM EST
Wolf Wolfman

    he fought the ndaa, #1.4

President Obama signed a law, which could apply to future presidents, which guts our constitution.

  • 6 votes
#1.15 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:20 PM EST
Reply
CreepingJesus

Considering the unreasoning and obstinate opposition President Obama experienced from republicans/teabaggers, I would say he deserves an A+.

  • 27 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:46 PM EST
Carl Lafoon

You got it right. The Republican Party can not stand the progress that the President has made despite the objections on each issue. They are running out of issues for the Fall Election.

The two Republican Wars are over.

Osama is dead.

The job market is improving.

The Republican Party is all screwed up.

We should expect four more years of Democratic rule with the House going Democratic again.

  • 12 votes
#2.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:59 PM EST
Reply
LilCrow

I justed wanted to agree with the comment above..could not have said it better Creepingjesus! KUDDOS

  • 15 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:50 PM EST
TheyreAllCrooks

Some can say Obama inherited problems from Bush, which is true. But Obama promised during his campaign in 2008 to correct those problems, and thus far he hasn't done so very well overall, as I see it. Thus, Obama gets an overall grade of D from me.

Ah, so I see you're just like so many others I see here. It's Obama's fault. What exactly has this Congress done for America? Absolutely nothing! Their stated goal is to NOT work with the POTUS, to oppose any and everything he wants, to say NO to everything!

The economy is headed in the right direction despite no help whatsover from Congress - so now the tea party is talking about contraceptives, abortions, forced ultrasounds, anything BUT the economy!

The POTUS kept his word regarding the wars. His foreign policy approach is effective. My biggest beef with the POTUS is he didn't stand firm for the public option, had he done so, most Americans would be in favor of healthcare reform.

Considering the unprecedented bullchit, hatred and disrespect shown this POTUS by Congress, overall I'd give this president a B. I'd like to give him a A but that HCR plan was not handled well at all.

  • 21 votes
#4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:51 PM EST
jameseg

TheyreAllCrooks, while I don't completely agree with you, I do think you (and others) make a good point about Congress presenting some obstacles to President Obama. But that is true of many Presidents.

Part of the President's job is being able to get along with Congress. Therefore, he must take part of the blame for such failure in my opinion.

Since the Democrats had a majority in both the Senate and House of Representatives during Obama's first two years in office and still have a majority in the Senate, it could be argued that he should have had an easier time getting along with Congress than some other Presidents.

Below is a link to one of many articles showing the composition of Congress by political party.

Infoplease.com article

  • 9 votes
#4.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:24 PM EST
CreepingJesus

But that is true of many Presidents.

I don't think any other president has experienced the level of hatred, disrespect and obstinate resistance that President Obama has experienced.

  • 22 votes
#4.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:57 PM EST
TheyreAllCrooks

Since the Democrats had a majority in both the Senate and House of Representatives during Obama's first two years in office and still have a majority in the Senate, it could be argued that he should have had an easier time getting along with Congress than some other Presidents.

First of all many congressional Democrats are actually Republicans...this is very true of many of the conservative Dems...so anything short of a super majority is not really a majority at all.

I don't see how you can say it's the POTUS job to get along with Congress when the GOP leadership is all over TV everyday saying they don't believe in compromise. Nothing gets done UNLESS there is compromise.

There's a reason why this Congress has the lowest rating of any Congress in history and it's because the POTUS hasn;t tried...it's because the GOP is hate filled and makes no secret of it. Some chose to try and make excuses for them...but the public sees what's going on...and I would agree with CreepingJesus - the level of hate and disrespect shown this president is unprecedented.

  • 15 votes
#4.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:15 PM EST
jameseg

I don't think any other president has experienced the level of hatred, disrespect and obstinate resistance that President Obama has experienced.

CreepingJesus, I think there is a bit of hyperbole in the above quote from your comment #4.2.

I'm not an historian so I can't give a detailed history of all the Presidents and what they endured.

But for starters, Abraham Lincoln had to deal with several states that seceded from the Union after he won the 1860 Presidential election.

Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, was impeached by the House of Representatives, and the Senate came within one vote of convicting him and removing him from office.

  • 6 votes
#4.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:15 PM EST
Mary-1324335

jameseg: I agree with CreepingJesus and TheyreAllCrooks regarding this obstinate Congress, which includes stubborn members from both sides of the aisle. However, I will qualify that by stating the no recent POTUS has experienced the level of hatred and disrespect from members of Congress.

  • 19 votes
#4.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:41 PM EST
Runner99

Oh I can think of one. Guess which one?

  • 7 votes
#4.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:55 PM EST
vol fan in chatt, tn

This man has been a disaster for our country!

Never in the modern era has this country been so divided.

The economy is in the toilet (contrary to the "good news on unemployment which was just more smoke and mirrors...the participation rate in the labor force has dropped to the lowest levels since after the Jimmy Cauta era of a disaster - meaning people have DROPPED out of the work force and are not even included:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/latest-congressional-budget-outlook-2012-2022-released

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/real-jobless-rate-114-realistic-labor-force-participation-rate

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72205.html.

Inflation up as are the cost of goods:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/latest-congressional-budget-outlook-2012-2022-released

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Hybrid/story?id=86057&page=1#.Tyh5jlxSTjU

http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/cpifoodandexpenditures/consumerpriceindex.htm

Obamacare...we predicted this. Doctors would get out of business because they simple cannot make it (and Obamacare has not even been fully implemented)

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/index.htm?hpt=hp_t3&hpt=hp_c1

And now we have the whole debacle with the Obama ADM trying to force religious charities/ organizations to go against their teachings...and then he tries to cover it up by signing a bogus executive order that did nothing of the sort he said it did.:

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/209553-white-house-struggles-to-contain-uproar-over-birth-control-mandate

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/dem-rep-kathy-dahlkemper-i-wouldnt-have-voted-obamacare-if-id-known-about-hhs-regulation_626302.html

And to top that, we have the military chaplains told what they could and could not say in church from the higher ups in the military:

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=d5f70a7e-c778-4213-a1c6-4f3309997e3a

Then he purports to make an about face on the over zealous regulations of Obamacare toward religious freedom when did NOTHING of the sort...all he did rearrange the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.

Obama on pace to spend 6.2 trillion dollars

1. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-pace-borrow-62t-one-term-more-all-presidents-washington-through-clinton-combined

2. but he called Bush's debt increase "unpatriotic"

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/01/13/obama-called-smaller-bush-debt-rise-unpatriotic/

TAXES are getting ready to SKYROCKET

“ U.S. economy in taxes will increase by more than 30 percent between 2012 and 2014, according to the Budget and Economic Outlook published today by the CBO.

At the same time, according to CBO, the economy will remain sluggish, partly because of higher taxes.

“In particular, between 2012 and 2014, revenues in CBO’s baseline shoot up by more than 30 percent,” said CBO, “mostly because of the recent or scheduled expirations of tax provisions, such as those that lower income tax rates and limit the reach of the alternative minimum tax (AMT), and the imposition of new taxes, fees, and penalties that are scheduled to go into effect.”

The U.S. economy, CBO projects, will perform “below its potential” for another six years and unemployment will remain above 7 percent for another three.

“The pace of the economic recovery has been slow since the recession ended in June 2009, and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) expects that, under current laws governing taxes and spending, the economy will continue to grow at a sluggish pace over the next two years,” said CBO. “That pace of growth partly reflects the dampening effect on economic activity from the higher tax rates and curbs on spending scheduled to occur this year and especially next year.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/cbo-taxes-will-shoot-more-30-percent-over-next-2-years

“For the fourth year in a row, Washington faces a $1 trillion-plus deficit and just servicing the nation’s debt will soon cost as much as paying for Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor and disabled.

Those were two grim predictions in a 147-page report from the Congressional Budget Office, which Tuesday stepped into the 2012 campaign…”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72205.html

We have more people depending on the gubberment than did during Jimmy Cauta's term

http://news.investors.com/Article/600452/201202080802/government-dependence-jumps-under-president-obama.htm

Foreign Policy is a disaster - he, for the most part, ignored the democracy uprising in Iran where hundreds were imprisoned and/ or slaughtered. Yet was publically for the overthrow of a fairly stable and reliable ally Egypt who has now been taken over by the Islamic radicals -Muslim Brotherhood ( as we knew would happen despite the proclamations form the WH that it would not), then you have the Libya conflict, Syria, Yemen, Iraq is going to turn into a mess, Afghanistan already IS...Now we have the two bit Aminanutjob threatening to shut the Strait of Hormuz and threatening not only Israel, but also, the United States of America...we look weak and pathetic - all around the globe.

He rejected the Keystone pipeline, he has rejected most forms of making us fuel independent(unless of course his buddies are somehow getting a kickback - think GE, Solyna etc) - from other nations by failing to approve methods of getting our own resources.

I could go on, but you get the point...

  • 14 votes
#4.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:06 PM EST
TheyreAllCrooks

Yes, well why that was immensely longwinded and all over the place one thing is quite clear. The GOP has NO plan and that's why they're all over my TV yipping about contraceptives, abortions bills, forced ultrasounds whether a woman wants one or not, etc.

They don't HAVE a plan for the economy...if they did they'd be selling that not all this religious hocus pocus.

  • 21 votes
#4.8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:20 PM EST
thelopes

This man has been a disaster for our country!

Never in the modern era has this country been so divided.

I've never understood the idea of blaming one person for this. As if any other person could actually 'undivide' our modern political discourse.

  • 14 votes
#4.9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:34 PM EST
jameseg

Thanks vol fan in chatt, tn for raising several issues in your comment #4.7. I agree with you on several of them, though not all.

  • 8 votes
#4.10 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:35 PM EST
Runner99

So, it is to some that the President can not win in issues because conservatives are blocking his path to success? How about the reality that he had the super majority for the first two years of his Presidency. What exactly got accomplished then?

  • 8 votes
#4.11 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:30 AM EST
Caryl S. Foster

The GOP's overly abundant use of filibustering, added amendments, and imposition of a super majority requirement to get anything of big significance passed during the last 3 years has effectively negated "control" of the Senate by the democratic party majority.

  • 8 votes
#4.12 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:34 AM EST
Davy-755715

Congress in general has been treating us as if they were trying to appease spoiled children. This has meant giving us nearly every program we wanted, with few attempts to get us to pay for it all.

To an extent it can be said that Obama has wanted expensive things too, but the Affordable Care Act is a heluva lot better and makes a lot more sense for America than a "moon base".

  • 7 votes
#4.13 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:29 AM EST
vol fan in chatt, tn

The GOP has NO plan

Not true...the House has passed 25 bills that are sitting in Harry Reid's lap, he has not even allowed to come to a vote in the Senate.

http://randy.house.gov/uploads/10%2017%2011%20Final%201%20Pager%20For%20Jobs%20Roundtable%20PDF.pdf

The House for the first time in 3 years passed a budget for this year (FY2012) that Harry Reid did not even let come to a vote on the floor of the Senate, thus we had the debacle all fall until Christmas over the CR's to keep the government funded. And despite the bald faced lie that came out of the mouth of the Obama economic chief on Sunday:

As President Obama prepares to unveil his FY2013 budget Monday, White House chief of staff Jack Lew this morning was asked by CNN to defend the Senate’s refusal to pass a budget in more than 1,000 days.

“You can’t pass a budget in the Senate of the United States without 60 votes and you can’t get 60 votes without bipartisan support,” Lew said. “So unless… unless Republicans are willing to work with Democrats in the Senate, [Majority Leader] Harry Reid is not going to be able to get a budget passed.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/wh-chief-of-staff-errs-on-senate-budget-rules/

a budget does NOT have to be filibuster proof (I like how ABC gives him the "he erred" treatment - it was a bald faced lie and if he is so incompetent as to know that, maybe he doesn't need to be in that position) it takes a simple majority vote to pass a budget. Wonder why Harry reid won't allow it? Guess he is a bit scared to let a budget come to the floor of the Senate.

  • 7 votes
#4.14 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:16 PM EST
vol fan in chatt, tn

here's another one to prove the point about Obama's disasterous foreign policy. Just this morning:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/muslim-brotherhood-warns-us-aid-cut-may-affect-egypt-s-peace-treaty-israel

  • 6 votes
#4.15 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:32 PM EST
lib50

Here's another take on Obama's foreign policy.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/zakaria-obamas-foreign-policy-successes/

http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/10/21/five_thoughts_on_the_politics_of_obamas_foreign_policy

  • 2 votes
#4.16 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:25 PM EST
Socialist Plant

Vol Fan,

First off, relax. You run the risk of suffering a heart attack within the next year writing with such overbearing anger.

While emotion and passion are great for flare and make a good show, you lack any logical argument, which, in effect, nullifies any sort of credibility you may or may not have possessed.

You simply pulled an O'Rielly, and like Colbert once said, "..it's not about how right you are, it's about how loud you say it."

Some of the articles are outdated (early January articles based off of a precarious economic situation that was subject to rapid change) and other have no direct correlation to the U.S. Presidency (food cost, for example), and that fact you try to skewer his foreign policy when you have no such policy experience yourself. I don't either for matter, but I can say with 100% certainty that you're blowing things way out of proportion (saying his F.P. is a "disaster" when there has not been a new war, and one has been drawn to a close, Libya fought their own Revolution for independence with token U.S. support, add to the fact that Bin Laden has been killed, and buried as a respected enemy)

Here's a tip: next time instead of link, weave your links with citations into your argument. Otherwise, it just looks poorly though out. Like all your arguments.

  • 2 votes
#4.17 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:53 PM EST
MyPurpleNews

Vol fan...Thank you for all the SPOT ON points. The simplest answer for me as too why Obama gets insults is the Obama socialist and union loving policies. He lies to the American people frequently by giving half truths. ie today Obama asserted that the (wimpy) Congress voted for continuing the payroll tax cut as wins for the middle class. WOW, since when is bankrupting the middle class's retirement plan a win for the middle class. In fact it is Horrible for the middle class. Yet Princess Nancy Pelosi who has a different robust retirement plan (so she is set) cheered on this destruction of the social security system. Another frequent Obama lie to throw red meat to the liberals is that the rich must pay their share. Have you EVER heard Obama state that Buffet pays primarily Capital Gains tax (the duplicate tax on corporate earnings) and that his secretary pays INCOME TAX (a different tax than Cap Gains for a different type of income). Since most small businesses (the life-blood of our economy) making a million dollars pay about half of their income in federal, state other taxes, it is a LIE that they do not pay their share of Income taxes. Yet Obama has seen surveys that show his base loves this lie and so he continues it. If you ever read the Wall Street Journal you will be wildly amazed that there is another side to the Obama lies and he is leading the people off the abyss by insane spending and refusal to cut massive fraud and waste in the government. So why do people throw insults to him? They STRONGLY disagree with every policy that comes out of his mouth because it is always a spending program, usually for the unions or his contributors.

  • 2 votes
#4.18 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:57 PM EST
sugarmae

#4.18 MyPurpleNews - pulled out a few of the salient comments you so excellently posted. They bear repeating.

"He lies to the American people frequently by giving half truths. ie today Obama asserted that ... Congress voted for continuing the payroll tax cut as wins for the middle class. WOW, since when is bankrupting the middle class's retirement plan a win for the middle class."

"The rich must pay their share. Have you EVER heard Obama state that Buffet pays primarily Capital Gains tax ... his secretary pays INCOME TAX (a different tax than Cap Gains for a different type of income)" That is an apples to oranges comparison.

"small businesses (the life-blood of our economy) ...pay about half of their income in federal, state other taxes, it is a LIE that they do not pay their share of Income taxes."

"People ... STRONGLY disagree with every policy that comes out of his mouth because it is always a spending program, ... insane spending and refusal to cut massive fraud and waste in the government."

  • 2 votes
#4.19 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:56 PM EST
Reply
Dave-661352

It's common knowledge a President can't do much on his own. I'm sure President Obama was thinking there would be considerably more cooperation in the Congress to get America back on it's feet and moving again. No one could have predicted the idiocy of the right to let America suffer, just to win the White House back.

Now, we see none of the strategies of the right have worked very well, if at all. The President will be re-elected. The House may very well go back to the Democrats and the Senate may gain a few more Democrat seats. All good news for the Country. I would prefer a bi-partisan Congress, but when one side fails miserably to do anything, one must do what one must do. Bounce the non-working stiffs out of office, roll up ones sleeves and get to work.

  • 10 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:57 PM EST
BigRedOne4Life

Dave:
None of the strategies have worked???? Then why is everyone crying everyday on T.V. about Republican obstruction? Seems to me something is working.
You nor I know that the POTUS will be re-elected. That will be decided in November. I think the Republicans may lose the WH but they will take complete control of Congress. That will produce a lot of made for T.V. fights. Obama's entire second term will be a lame duck.
The Congress is the prize in 2012 not the WH.

  • 1 vote
#5.1 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:03 PM EST
Reply
willard

he must be doing well, the republicans are desperately pushing up the ante on the cultural/social issues. That's a clear indicator that "party of ideas has no ideas. So, once again they rely on their "southern strategy" to get all the old racist white folks out (like the happy union of the KKK and John Birchers at CPAC).

They've caved on the payroll tax bill and look to be setting up a losing battle on the debt ceiling while McConnell is pledging to reverse the contraceptive decision/compromise. Are we ever going to get a responsible republican party again - or will it forever be controlled now by rightwing religious zealots like Insanatorium or the ignorance of the teabaggers?

Insanatorium is such a coward - blames his wife for his stupid statements - the perfect Norquist president stupid and subservient

  • 10 votes
Reply#6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:02 PM EST
blue wolf

If he didn't have a hostile House, he undoubtedly would have done even more.

I gave him an A.

  • 18 votes
Reply#7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:09 PM EST
BigRedOne4Life

IF???? If a dog had a square a$$ he would shish blocks.

He is the POTUS and it is imperative that he LEADS and find a working relationship that is tolerable.

  • 3 votes
#7.1 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:06 PM EST
Reply
dwillie

Just looking at the economy, when President Obama took office:
- the economy was losing 600,000 - 800,000 jobs per month
- two of the big three automakers were threatening to shut down
- unemployment was rising
- The Dow Jones Industrial Average was 8,279.65

Today:
- 23 straight months of private sector job growth
- automakers stabilized with GM regaining market share leadership
- unemployment is falling
- the DJIA closed at 12,874.04, 55% higher than it was when the President took office.

In foreign policy, Al Qaeda's full leadership team was intact, now its decapitated. We had 150,000 troops on the ground in Iraq, now we are out. We were quagmired in Afghanistan, now we have an exit plan. We have a START treaty that leads to further reductions in and control of nukes.

I agree with you that we do not see eye to eye on gay marriage. The Constitution does not make a distinction in who should have the benefits and responsibilities in our civil society. Thus, the President's "evolution" is positive from my perspective as is the repeal of DADT.

There are some disappointments (I want GITMO closed, single payer health care finance, trials for detainees, the return of Glass-Steagal and implementation of immigration reform starting with the DREAM Act.

This President gets a solid B.

  • 27 votes
Reply#8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:18 PM EST
jameseg

Thanks, dwillie, for a nice analysis!

I'm probably not quite as optimistic as you are about the long term effects of the economic growth, and I credit the unstainable budget deficits for much of the short term growth. But you make some good points.

In foreign policy, Al Qaeda's full leadership team was intact, now its decapitated. We had 150,000 troops on the ground in Iraq, now we are out. We were quagmired in Afghanistan, now we have an exit plan. We have a START treaty that leads to further reductions in and control of nukes.

Excellent points. I'm happy about this, too. But the way it was done doesn't seem to have reduced terrorist attacks in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere around the world.

Still, Obama definitely deserves credit for progress. Thanks for your insights!

  • 7 votes
#8.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:32 PM EST
dwillie

jameseg, I don't doubt that we are playing with fire from a macroeconomic standpoint. The Fed's monetary stance is inflationary and I agree that our debt levels are unsustainable. The President has offered some tough medicine in the form of both new taxes and spending cuts, but his political opponents have taken taxes completely off of the table. I don't believe we can get away with balancing the budget without doing both.

I'll have to think about whether a reduction of terrorist attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan even represents a reasonable goal as our invasion of Iraq further destabilized an already unstable situation. Our mandate was to eradicate those who attacked us on 9/11, not attempt to bring democracy to what was admittedly a brutal dictatorship in Iraq, particularly when doing so would through the balance of regional power over to Iran.

While we disagree on several points, jameseg, I very much appreciate your very straight-ahead and decidedly non-vituperative approach to this discussion. Keep up the good work.

  • 10 votes
#8.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:33 PM EST
jameseg

his political opponents have taken taxes completely off of the table. I don't believe we can get away with balancing the budget without doing both.

I think it is possible to do it without tax increases if there are major spending cuts that include substantial cuts in military spending. Military spending is a huge part of the budget. But many of Obama's opponents oppose cuts in military spending as well as opposing tax increases, which seems ridiculous to me.

I agree persons expecting to do it without either tax increases or big cuts in military spending (or both) are not being realistic.

And neither Obama nor the Republicans or Democrats in Congress are likely to do much about the Social Security or Medicare funding problem in an election year. Who knows? Maybe we'll find new cures that cut medical costs and people will be healthy and continue working instead of retiring, or maybe we will have a major epidemic that sends many people "home" before reaching retirement age!

our invasion of Iraq further destabilized an already unstable situation

I agree with you. And I don't think Iraq had anything to do with the 9-11 attacks. Obama inherited a mess from Bush in Iraq.

While we disagree on several points, jameseg, I very much appreciate your very straight-ahead and decidedly non-vituperative approach to this discussion. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the compliment, dwillie! I appreciate your nice insights, too.

  • 4 votes
#8.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:50 PM EST
Grisham

There are some disappointments (I want GITMO closed, single payer health care finance, trials for detainees, the return of Glass-Steagal and implementation of immigration reform starting with the DREAM Act.

I agree with Dwille. I'd add to the above the NDAA bill and his flaccid response to SOPA as failures. His stance on gay marriage could be stronger, but at least he's doing something about it. He gets big marks there for moving the US into the 21st century in that regard, although the move isn't complete. I'd also say he gets a solid B.

Impressive article, James. While I disagree with some of your points, I think you made a good effort to assess the situation as objectively as possible. Well done.

  • 7 votes
#8.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:03 PM EST
jameseg

Impressive article, James. While I disagree with some of your points, I think you made a good effort to assess the situation as objectively as possible. Well done.

Thanks Grisham! And thanks for your input on specific issues, too.

  • 5 votes
#8.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:10 PM EST
Reply
chitownty

I gave him a B,mainly for a few missteps at the beginning,but given a second term,and a more cooporative Congress,I'm looking at an A graduate with honors,a top ten President.

  • 11 votes
Reply#9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:25 PM EST
webslinger

He ain't perfect by a long shot, but he's gotten a lot accomplished with a massive sht pile and massive obstruction from the minority party.....compared to anything or anyone they have, I too agree he get's a B.

  • 8 votes
#9.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:08 PM EST
Reply
Stevie-445471

He has a vision and without a vision the people perish. I voted for him in 2008 and by the grace of God I will vote for him again in November.

  • 13 votes
Reply#10 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:04 PM EST
AlphaDogReporter

I gave him a B because he bungled two critical issues - he caved on the public option and the tax cuts.

The reason for the B is that he was facing epic obstruction, so I put the majority of the blame on the GOP for those two.

There are a few other things I'm not jazzed about, but again there is plenty of blame to go around.

I shudder to think where we would be with McCain/Palin at the helm; they probably would have made the Costa Concordia disaster pale in comparison.

  • 9 votes
Reply#11 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:10 PM EST
dwillie

I too wish that the President would have fought harder for the public option. But I think that further extending the tax cuts was a good trade. It opened a log-jam that made the lame duck session the most productive I can remember. DADT was repealed, the START treaty was ratified and unemployment benefits were extended.

I also believe that America dodged a bullet by not electing McCain/Palin

  • 11 votes
#11.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:39 PM EST
Caryl S. Foster

For me, not pushing for the public option is President Obama's only truly serious mistake. As a result, a major way to minimize the high rate of growth of healthcare insurance costs was lost and now the GOP uses the continuing increase in costs to undermine his healthcare bill. Fortunately, the GOP is now undermining itself with their nonsense of banning contraception healthcare insurance.

A lesser mistake was not calling the GOP's and TeaParty's debt crisis bluff of letting the country default before permitting the Bush tax credits for the wealthy to expire. But at least, the outcome put him and everyone on notice of how desperate and determined the GOP is to defeat him even at the direct economic expense of Americans and America as a whole.

In terms of foreign policy, President Obama has been simply brilliant and as far as the domestic economy, having started with the Stimulus and the Auto bail-out, he is moving the country in the right direction despite what the GOP does and does not do and says.

Overall, I give President Obama a solid "B" and it is up to the America Public to give him the opportunity to earn an "A" over the next term by re-electing him and by de-electing those in both the House and Senate who are so singularly focused on their own short-term political self-interests at the recognized expense of what is in the best long-term interests of the country as a whole.

  • 2 votes
#11.2 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:24 AM EST
Reply
bestquest

Below average

1) first afghan buildup sent 21,000 more American soldiers to fight. McCrystal and others, including a brit claim credit for convincing obama in Oct. 2008. He signed the orders late Feb or early March 2009. McChrystal took over command June 15, 2009. Previous commander became ambassador.

2) Dithering. I was about the only American defending Obama Sept thru Dec 2009. Petraeus leaked McChrystals re-re-revised afghan surge plan to Woodward late august, after only 10 weeks of McC's command. Gates approved, we learned later. McC wanted soldiers leaving Iraq to go diectly to afghan, not home to USA. We had no trained, ready to go soldiers available. Next group would be Jan. 2010. Dec. the prez approved McC's new plan and authorized 33,000 more to afghan. Prez shoulda fired all 3 immediately for the leak, bad plan, waste of borrowed dollars.

In 3 years of ojt, the prez still has not learned military, economics nor how to hire good people.

3) hiring good people. During the health care debate, democrats were always 3 days late answering republican complaints at there three a day press conferences. Totally amateur white house staff - and it has not improved. Only harry and the speaker ever appeared at legislature. Did they hog the mike? Why not put the experts out there to explain the details. And yes, I know it was on c-span as committee hearings, but parents at work cannot access nor can non cable folks.

4) Caving into republican demands.

that is enough for now, getting a stress headache.

  • 1 vote
Reply#12 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:04 PM EST
MJMullinII

The problem is not a Congress who disagrees with the President (that, indeed, has happened since time immemorial).

The problem is a Congress (or simply a political party) which agrees wholeheartedly when President "A" does something, and claims an international conspiracy out to destroy America when President "B" does the exactly same thing.

And...yes...I'll mention the white elephant in the room, this discrepancy is the more disturbing when the only real difference between Presidents "A" and "B" is the color of their skin.

  • 12 votes
#13 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:39 PM EST
jameseg

The problem is a Congress (or simply a political party) which agrees wholeheartedly when President "A" does something, and claims an international conspiracy out to destroy America when President "B" does the exactly same thing.

MJMullinll, do you have some specific examples of this?

  • 2 votes
#13.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:50 PM EST
TheyreAllCrooks

I'll give you a perfect example. Healthcare mandates. Mandates are and always have been a GOP idea. In fact they introduced mandates TWICE while Bush was in office.

Obama does it and suddenly he's a Communist, a Socialist traitor and "they want their country back"! They also proposed mandates when they stopped HillaryCare.

The GOP is voting against everything they used to be for - just for the purpose of saying NO. They raised the debt ceiling with no questions asked multiple times when Bush was in office...then they brought the country to near financial ruin when Obama needed it raised causing our credit rating to be lowered.

These are undeniable facts but yet many chose to ignore the facts.

  • 11 votes
#13.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:09 PM EST
jameseg

TheyreAllCrooks, there has been some hypocrisy and/or changed views regarding health care mandates, which I attribute at least partially to partisan bickering.

True, too, regarding the debt ceiling increases, although it can be argued that the national debt increases have been greatest in recent years.

Nice examples.

  • 3 votes
#13.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:19 PM EST
MJMullinII

At #13.2 -- Couldn't have said it better...perfect example indeed.

At #13.3 --

True, too, regarding the debt ceiling increases, although it can be argued that the national debt increases have been greatest in recent years.

No, actually it can't. The debt has only increased by about $1.2 Trillion dollars under the Obama Administration. Under the former Republican Congress, the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were forcibly kept off the books by demanding the Military submit an immediate "supplemental" each and every time the said Republican Congress passed a Budget all the years they were in charge.

Nancy Pelosi, as one of her first acts as Speaker, ended the practice and the true deficit was immediately shown.

  • 8 votes
#13.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:28 PM EST
TheyreAllCrooks

Under the former Republican Congress, the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were forcibly kept off the books by demanding the Military submit an immediate "supplemental" each and every time the said Republican Congress passed a Budget all the years they were in charge.

Exactly. And how many TRILLION have those un-needed wars cost?

Another example...GITMO. Obama promised to close GITMO. So what did Congress do...they placed a rider in the budget that "prohibits the transfer of detainees from Guantanamo Bay". Meaning they cut off funding to move them...THEN they all line up on Fox and claim the POTUS broke his promise.

The GOP has no plan OTHER than obstruction.

  • 6 votes
#13.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:57 PM EST
jameseg

MJMullinll and TheyreAllCrooks, you both make excellent points about the misleading creative accounting the Bush administration used in the budgeting process for funding the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

However, the creative accounting affected the budgets submitted to Congress, not the national debt or the national debt ceiling at the end of the fiscal years.

The national debt still went up when the funding was eventually appropriated, so the funding for those wars was included in the increases in the national debt during the Bush administration, as I perceive it.

WhiteHouse.gov article (Clicking on Table 7.1 in this article takes you to a spreadsheet listing the national debt by year, which makes it clear Obama has added the most to the national debt.

Please let me know if I am missing something.

  • 1 vote
#13.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:27 PM EST
vol fan in chatt, tn

The debt has only increased by about $1.2 Trillion dollars under the Obama Administration.

How can you even say that with a straight face? Obama's has had record deficits the last three years. And every single one of them has been over 1 trillion dollars.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58915.html#ixzz1S1zYgwkT

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/07/another-obama-record-deficit-tops-trillion-dollars-for-third-year-in-a-row/

  • 4 votes
#13.7 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:21 PM EST
jameseg

Excellent point, vol fan in chatt, tn!

I don't know where the $1.2 trillion dollar figure they used came from. I linked to the actual figures in my comment #13.6.

  • 3 votes
#13.8 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM EST
sugarmae

Vol fan in chatt, tn - if not for you I would have stopped reading long ago. I can refute so many claims. But am just too disheartened for words.

Democratic voters want to be subjected to lunch box policing. Parents just aren't good enough for their kids. What are the rights left in the Bill of Rights? We have an administration that has issued 4,000 mandates in 3 years. Whittling away your freedoms. And now the amendments are being subverted. It has nothing to do with the Republicans but everything to do with this administration subverting your right to be represented. Let me just clue you in on the obamacare law...if you work somewhere and are insured under obamacare, no one else in your family is covered. If one member of your family is covered by obamacare, no one else in the family is covered. If you want to be covered, both must work. Do you realize the implication of this for society? It is a social issue. It destroys the family unit. You are going to pay through the nose for obamacare and then have to pay for supplemental insurance to cover everyone else in your family. If you thought healthcare insurance expensive now!! The way Pelosi posed the vote was, you cannot read the bill until after you have signed it. That is how it was passed. Please look it up in the congressional record. Democrat=blame party. Also, as many drs are leaving the profession because they can't make overhead to justify reduced earnings, there will be a wait for care, or substandard care. My goodness I'm just getting started but it will probably fall on deaf ears. But I think you should give me a blank check. After I cash it I will tell you what I made it out for. Oh, and I challenge you to go out and spend like a fiend beyond your limits, and then take out a loan. And then come tell me how you have balanced your checkbook with this method.

Jus

  • 1 vote
#13.9 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:46 AM EST
bondibox

The way Pelosi posed the vote was, you cannot read the bill until after you have signed it.

Ah yes, revisionist history at its finest.

  • 1 vote
#13.10 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:09 AM EST
BigRedOne4Life

..it is the truth.

  • 1 vote
#13.11 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:20 AM EST
webslinger

not so much Big Red,

You see, by the time that statement was made (look it up), the House had passed a version of PPACA (after 2 committee versions and 14 months of floor debates, and a nationally televised vote, complete with speeches from the likes of Bart Stupak relating to his "objections" regarding the coverage for abortion (which wasn't in the bill and was prohibited by Federal law) - then the Senate passed it's version (after 2 committee versions, 14 months of floor debates and ultimately a failed filibuster attempt by McConnell and company thanks to the defection of the Maine sisters).....HOWEVER, the bills were slightly different and therefore (as is not uncommon), a conference committee was convened to hash out the differences. At which point, Pelosi was asked what would be in the final version that the President would sign and she made her "unwise" statement basically saying, "We'll have to work out the details before we know that, and we do that by voting on which elements we think should be in it, and which shouldn't - so, basically, we'll have to have committee (bi-partisan) consensus first, so hold your horses media!"

In context to anyone who paid attention during the entire Health Care Reform saga, her words were pretty clear.....however, for those who ignored the whole process, have no clue how legislation is passed and only listened to those who harped on her ONE quote (people like you), there's only the distortion.

  • 2 votes
#13.12 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:43 AM EST
jameseg

The way Pelosi posed the vote was, you cannot read the bill until after you have signed it.

Regarding the above quote from sugarmae's comment #13.9:

One of my pet peeves with Congress (both Democrats and Republicans) is that they sumbit lengthy bills, amend them various ways, then vote on these bills that may be hundreds or thousands of pages long without anyone having time to read the entire bills.

There have actually been occasions when the original sponsor of a bill voted against their own bill due to amendments to it that they disagreed with strongly.

It would be nice if they could at least focus on specific issues on bills and didn't add unrelated amendments on them. Often these amendments are pork that adds to the budget deficit.

  • 4 votes
#13.13 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:09 PM EST
BigRedOne4Life

webslinger:

It is not that serious. I could give a rats @&& about what Pelosi said. She made the statement and that is what I was agreeing with.

I believe as a holder of dual degree's, I understand our political process.

Some of you just take this blog thing too serious.

  • 1 vote
#13.14 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 PM EST
webslinger

I take political discourse and the spreading of lies VERY seriously and have little respect for those who spread them, and who clearly should know better.

  • 2 votes
#13.15 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:15 PM EST
BigRedOne4Life

James:

Finally someone reasonable.

  • 2 votes
#13.16 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:16 PM EST
sugarmae

webslinger - you disrespect yourself.

  • 1 vote
#13.17 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:08 AM EST
Reply
MJMullinII

--duplicate--

    Reply#14 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:28 PM EST
    FreedomRanger

    Mandates are and always have been a GOP idea. In fact they introduced mandates TWICE while Bush was in office.

    Source please. Not that I doubt you, but.....source please.

    By the way, this article is not about Bush. Why must it always come down to that?

    The last three vulgar years of spending and apologizing, and lying and patronizing and outright corruption....i.e., Solyndra and Fast and Furious, are what should be discussed here. Are you prepared to defend and support the relationship between GE and this President? Are you prepared to discuss the beyond obvious union paybacks and the pay to play scams that are in the news every week? Somehow, these rather important issues seem to just be unimportant to the left and obama supporters...why is that? Do you deny that since fully 1/2 of the UNITED STATES are suing this administration is not important? Or does Bushes daughters rank higher in important? These are huge and yet to be answered issues that the MSN wont talk about, but they exist.

    F+

    • 9 votes
    Reply#15 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:30 PM EST
    TheyreAllCrooks

    The concept of the individual health insurance mandate is considered to have originated in 1989 at the conservative Heritage Foundation. In 1993, Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

    http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

    Regarding why I mentioned Bush...see the comments in #13.1. I was responding directly to his point.

    Speaking of issues, the ones the GOP seems to be discussing are abortion, contraceptives, forced ultrasounds, school prayer and Shari-Law...they don't want to talk about the economy because they don;t have a plan other than returning to the failed policies they've pushed for decades.

    • 9 votes
    #15.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:42 PM EST
    webslinger

    Furthermore, it should be noted that both Fast and Furious AND the loan program involving Solyndra both originated under the Bush administration.

    The rest of FreedomRanger's post doesn't even warrant any response as it is the same, tired, right wing garbage that has been spewed all over the Net.

    • 7 votes
    #15.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:45 PM EST
    MJMullinII

    By the way, this article is not about Bush. Why must it always come down to that?

    For me it "must always come down to that" because the loudest complaints against Barack Obama are things that actually occurred under George W. Bush.

    Do you deny that since fully 1/2 of the UNITED STATES

    The "United States" is controlled by the Elected Federal Government. The Federal Government is not suing itself.

    What we have are individual State's who are using the court system (filing duplicate upon duplicate court cases -- I can only assume you're speaking to the Healthcare Reform Act --, something that would be labeled abuse if done in a small-claims Court setting) simply to attempt to get their names in the paper.

    Are you prepared to defend and support the relationship between GE and this President

    So it's somehow not proper to point out the problems that originated under George W. Bush but completely proper to attempt -- somehow -- to run a Private Corporation's Actions as somehow Obama's fault?

    Are you prepared to discuss the beyond obvious union paybacks and the pay to play scams that are in the news every week

    Yes, because the Internet is not "the news". The Internet is also full of stories talking about UFO abductions.

    Somehow, these rather important issues seem to just be unimportant to the left and obama supporters

    Because they are invented -- almost entirely -- by Obama detractors for no greater reason that to invent reasons not to like him. This, in my opinion, is because they could actually find no actual reasons (as the President won in 2008 despite Republican claims, etc.)

    The difference between calling Obama a Muslim Communist and my pointing out, for example, that 2/3s of the current Deficit is the Responsibility of George W. Bush is that I can actually back my claims with facts.

    These are huge and yet to be answered issues that the MSN wont talk about

    Nor does the "MSM" talk about UFOs to any degree. For the same reasons I might add (because they are bunk.)

    but they exist

    As rantings of anonymous Internet Bloggers (again, search "Alien Abduction" and you'll see virtually the same amount of postings).

    • 8 votes
    #15.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:51 PM EST
    Reply
    FreedomRanger

    Advocates 'including Republicans' is a FAR CRY from mandates "being a GOP idea".

    A bit sweeping wouldn't you say. How many democrats voted against Obama care? By your reasoning, one could say, democrats oppose that bill. You get my drift?

    • 4 votes
    Reply#16 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:46 PM EST
    MJMullinII

    Advocates 'including Republicans' is a FAR CRY from mandates "being a GOP idea".

    Not really, because an overwhelming majority were for Healthcare Mandates (during the healthcare debate in 2010, several Republicans even claimed publically --on Fox News no less-- that "Mandates are something the President and GOP could agree upon")

    That of course was before the GOP's "scorched Earth policy" became their official mantra.

    • 6 votes
    #16.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:55 PM EST
    webslinger

    Chuck Grassley was one of them and I THINK John McCain was one too.

    • 3 votes
    #16.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:57 PM EST
    TheyreAllCrooks

    A bit sweeping wouldn't you say. How many democrats voted against Obama care? By your reasoning, one could say, democrats oppose that bill. You get my drift?

    No I don't get your drift because mandates were in fact introduced by the GOP NOT by Dems. That is simply a fact - deny it if you like.

    Grassley was one of the strongest supporters of mandates for many years...now he's running around calling the POTUS a Socialist who's taking over healthcare when he's voted for mandates on multiple occasions previously.

    • 2 votes
    #16.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:02 PM EST
    TheyreAllCrooks

    "Healthy Americans Act of 2007 - Requires each adult individual to have the opportunity to purchase a Healthy Americans Private Insurance Plan (HAPI). Makes individuals who are not enrolled in another specified health plan and who are not opposed to coverage for religious reasons responsible for enrolling themselves and their dependent children in a HAPI plan offered through their state of residence. Sets forth penalties for failure to enroll."

    Sponsored by Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) & 17 cosponsors (7-D, 1-I, 9-R)...

    Funny thing ALL 9 of those GOP sponsors voted against the mandates in Obama's plan, when 2 years earlier they voter FOR it!

    • 8 votes
    #16.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:07 PM EST
    vol fan in chatt, tn

    Source, please crooks?

    • 2 votes
    #16.5 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:24 PM EST
    TheyreAllCrooks

    Source, please crooks?

    It came from the link I previously posted #15.1...try to keep up.

      #16.6 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:59 PM EST
      jameseg

      For convenience, below I repeat the link TheyreAllCrooks posted in comment #15.1.

      http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

      I will also take this opportunity to thank everyone for their comments and for voting in the poll, regardless of your personal beliefs.

      • 1 vote
      #16.7 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:14 PM EST
      Reply
      tyler-1708225

      "the loan program involving Solyndra riginated under the Bush administration."

      And the Bush administration shelved it because of questions, but it was picked up again by the Obama administration in March 2009.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#17 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:02 PM EST
      webslinger

      And?

      • 1 vote
      #17.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:03 PM EST
      tyler-1708225

      And? You can't blame it on the Bush administration when it was the Obama administration who made the deciding decision.

      • 6 votes
      #17.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:11 PM EST
      Reply
      Caryl S. Foster

      For me, not pushing for the public option is President Obama's only truly serious mistake. As a result, a major way to minimize the high rate of growth of healthcare insurance costs was lost and now the GOP uses the continuing increase in costs to undermine his healthcare bill. Fortunately, the GOP is now undermining itself with their nonsense of banning contraception healthcare insurance.

      A lesser mistake was not calling the GOP's and TeaParty's debt crisis bluff of letting the country default before permitting the Bush tax credits for the wealthy to expire. But at least, the outcome put him and everyone on notice of how desperate and determined the GOP is to defeat him even at the direct economic expense of Americans and America as a whole.

      In terms of foreign policy, President Obama has been simply brilliant and as far as the domestic economy, having started with the Stimulus and the Auto bail-out, he is moving the country in the right direction despite what the GOP does and does not do and says.

      Overall, I give President Obama a solid "B" and it is up to the America Public to give him the opportunity to earn an "A" over the next term by re-electing him and by de-electing those in both the House and Senate who are so singularly focused on their own short-term political self-interests at the recognized expense of what is in the best long-term economic and social interests of the country as a whole.

        Reply#18 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:28 AM EST
        Leon Elledge

        Reply to:

        A lesser mistake was not calling the GOP's and TeaParty's debt crisis bluff of letting the country default before permitting the Bush tax credits for the wealthy to expire.

        Sorry! The fact that virtually anyone earning less than $32,000.00 is not paying taxes, trumps the wealthy tag. If 40% of the workers don't pay, who cares what the rest do?

        • 1 vote
        #18.1 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:45 PM EST
        Caryl S. Foster

        Earning less than $32,000 and getting a tax refund does not mean that you did not pay any taxes.

        • 2 votes
        #18.2 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:49 PM EST
        webslinger

        Not to mention the sales tax, property tax, gas tax, communications taxes and all the other taxes we all pay.....

        • 2 votes
        #18.3 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:25 PM EST
        Reply
        BostonMan-3128434

        I wonder how all you liberals feel about Obama cutting funds for under privileges students?

        Fox News has learned the president is trying to zero out funding for the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship program, a $60 million program which helps underprivileged children in Washington get vouchers for private schools and has been vehemently opposed by teachers' unions.

        The program has been a pet project of Boehner, who even invited some of the kids who benefit to sit in his box at the State of the Union to highlight its effectiveness and undoubtedly make a political point. The program has also won support across the ideological spectrum from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.).

        Lieberman told Fox News he's "very disappointed" the president wants to zero out the program but is vowing to fight to keep it alive after more than 700 D.C. families showed up for an event last month to get applications for the next school year.

        Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/13/obama-plays-hardball-with-pet-project-boehners/#ixzz1mMBHzLgx

        • 4 votes
        Reply#19 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:00 AM EST
        Paul-534930

        I gave him a B, has he done everything I would have liked? No, but a lot of that blame falls on congress. He walked into the biggest economic mess this country has seen in like 80 years, you can`t expect it to turn around overnight.

        I feel congress shares a lot of the blame for it, how does it make sense to allow a million + people to immigrate here yearly when you have millions of your own out of work? I in no way shape or form support amnesty for people that entered this country illegally. Come in through the front door or do not enter! Stand in line and wait like everyone else.

        It is politics of the 21st century? did you honestly think the other party would do anything to make you look good?

        • 1 vote
        Reply#20 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:34 AM EST
        Luther28

        Thank you Paul, you saved me some typing as your opinion fairly echoes mine.

          #20.1 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:45 AM EST
          Reply
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