POLL: Drinking Alcoholic Beverages Socially: The Risks Outweigh Any Benefits?

I voted no, alchohol is a very useful compound, for everything from sanitizing to relieving pain. The problem, like just about everything else, is in the details. Alchohol is a tool and when abused has some consequences, like guns, cars, water, other drugs, fire, speed, just about anything can be abused.

The video linked above is some funny stuff, Ron White giving a nice discussion about being put in public drunk against his will.

Sorry james, but I just have to clear one thing up. The type of alcohol that's in an alcohol based hand sanitizer isn't the same kind that one would drink. The chemical compounds are different. You may be feeling a reaction to the isopropyl alcohol that's commonly used as a sterilzer. The kind typically found in most at home first aid kits, usually comes in a white or frosted bottle. That's really different than what's in a bottle of whiskey. I can post links if you like, just let me know :)

Onto the topic at hand...I was never really a social drinker, I'm still not really. I do occasionally drink and when I do, I'll mostly have a glass of wine with dinner or just nurse one mixed drink for the evening. Of course there are those occasions when I'm feeling festive and exceptionally social, I'll really tie one on, but my first warning that I'm getting to my limit is that my face starts to feel tingly. Once my lips go numb, I know I've had too much. I typically stop with the tingling feeling, but if the lips start to go, that's it I cut myself off.

I think it's about moderation. I think anything in moderation is OK. I have a hard time being around people who don't know their limit, it makes me very uncomfortable. I also have a hard time getting even a little tipsy with people I don't know. I remember the first time I ever got drunk with my husband's friends, we had already dated for over 4 years, and been married for a little over one. It took me a LONG time to get to the point where I could relax enough. There are still some people in the group that I won't really drink around because I just haven't been around them as much. Hmmm....sounds like maybe I have some trust issues LOL :)

I know the article's a few months old, but good job james!

Me too, but I have always kept rubbing alcohol around. Habit I guess...or glutton for punishment :)

The type of alcohol that's in an alcohol based hand sanitizer isn't the same kind that one would drink. The chemical compounds are different. You may be feeling a reaction to the isopropyl alcohol that's commonly used as a sterilzer.

Rehab centers never allow hand sanitizer just because it does contain alcohol. It may not be ethanol and in fact would be dangerous to drink, but it can definitely give a buzz.

#2.17 I have been inebriated in years past, as many young people do when trying to fit in. However, I did tend to be different just to prove to my folks that I could swim with fishes and not drown. I did not smoke, while most of my friends and associates did and long ago decided that I could be the designated driver and limit myself to a single drink early on and then switch to soda with lemon. Looked like rum and coke, made most folks comfortable but saved me the headache.

As for sanitizers, I understood that alcohol even if introduced on the skin was horrid for an alcoholic. If true than Isopropal or any would do the same damage. True?

Well, as far as I know, most can tolerate it. But it isn't necessarily a good idea. If a person is on a drug like Antabuse, it would be enough to set off a reaction.

I like to drink sometimes, and seeing all the vilence over banning drugs and reading about the violence when alcohol was banned, I vote that the benefits of not banning it out weigh the risks of banning it. Drinking it is another thing altogether. I guess that is best left to each person and their personal circumstances. Before becoming pregnant , during pregnancy and for both genders when trying to conceive? No it should not be used then at all. Anyone who is drinking and sexually active should use birth control period.

Not if the people you are "socializing" with are a bunch of drunks who merely encourage you. Isn't that what really happens in every bar?

Bars are one thing. A glass of wine at home with dinner is completely another.

True, but my point was you are probably safer having ONE glass of wine with dinner, even if alone, than out on the town with a bunch of hard drinking friends. I don't agree with drinking "for health" but if your doctor tells you to do it, so be it.

Wait a minute...first you discuss sociability...which would imply the presence of others...now you suggest you might "approve" of drinking alone...

I was not the one who suggested that drinking a poison is somehow better just because you find a bunch of other deluded fools to do it with you! One of the fake excuses for this poison has long been that it "enhances sociability" and I refuted that argument. I don't think it's wonderful to drink alone, either, but please leave out the "sociable" argument because it's demonstrably false and irrelevant. Anyone who cannot have a good time without alcohol has a very serious problem.

This is my point, in case you still missed it. If you are a person who truly believes you must have that daily glass of red wine for health, then the presence of another person while you drink that glass is irrelevant to the alleged health benefit. You are probably better off having it at home. I am NOT a person who believes wine to be especially healthy, but if you do believe it, I still wouldn't make that an excuse to hang out in bars.

One of the fake excuses for this poison has long been that it "enhances sociability" and I refuted that argument.

No you didn't....which is what I pointed out.

How do you believe it DOES enhance sociability? The ways it impacts it negatively are undeniable--arguments, insults, fist fights, ruined property, unprotected sex, and poor judgment of every kind leading to bad consequences too numerous (and well known) to list. People are obviously capable of being genuinely sociable without intoxicants of any kind, as we are social mammals thanks to millions of years of evolution. I'd like to see the evidence of the enhancement magically brought about by ethanol. It's true that you will find a group of friends laughing merrily in a bar--but you will find that same group laughing elsewhere, WITHOUT being under the influence of drugs.

A pathologically shy person may discover he or she is suddenly the "life of the party" while intoxicated, but is this really likely to enhance her life the next morning, particularly if she doesn't even remember it? Or worse yet, if she wakes up with a disgusting stranger in her bed? Even in less extreme cases, even if this person performs appropriately at the party and remembers doing so, what's reinforced in her mind is that she can ONLY function socially after consuming alcohol. The net effect on her self confidence in that case is negative, since feels unable to attribute her success to herself. You've also just put her at greatly increased risk for alcohol abuse and/or dependence. Congratulations, Dr. Freud! A worse way of "treating" social anxiety would be hard to imagine.

And using an analogy previously posted.....the effects of drowning are also undeniable...but I rarely see articles posted with the headline......"Millions swam today without incident" while I might see one something like..."Infant dies in swimming pool incident". The point is that extreme behavior is newsworthy...or in this case, to you, discussion worthy, while "normalcy" is not.

And, yes, I have seen bonding occur plenty of times over drinks which carries over into other aspects of the individuals lives.

Well that link didn't work out. Try this.

Speaking of the Mayo Clinic

I think the quote you used makes an excellent point about the risks of "moderate" drinking.

There are some of us who read it another way. "The benefits of moderate drinking". Glass half full.

Thank you jameseg for kind reply, although you wrote much more about the bad effect of alcohol and the readers also got allot of positive information from your article, but the question arise as drinking alcohol is a habit, so is there any other medicine or some thing else that a man can do and can leave the habit of drinking alcohol?

For example in our country we can leave smoking by the use of snuff (snuff is also make from tobacco and we put it inside our mouth and by it's regular use we can leave smoking for ever)

There is a drug called antabuse. Take that and drink alcohol you will get very sick and throw up.

I hate to keep repeating that I'm not a drinker, but....it seems to me that one of the benefits of drinking reasonably is the relief of stress...in other words the buzz is beneficial aside from sociability and just plain letting one's hair down.

Antabuse is a very dangerous drug that can actually cause staggering, hallucinations, and psychotic behavior in addition to its systemic effects, and that's even in the ABSENCE of any alcohol. It is NEVER prescribed unless you are simultaneously in some kind of professional program, and you are usually required to have somebody else administer it to you. That's not just to make sure you take it, but to make sure you don't accidentally overdose or even use it to commit suicide, something alcohol abusers are especially prone to. Nobody can take it for very long because it can destroy your liver as surely as alcohol itself. It will also cause terrible damage to the baby if a woman happens to be pregnant.

There are plenty of medications that are given to alcoholics in early recovery. Librium is often used for detox purposes, but only for a few days. Thiamine and other vitamins are typically given (don't try this without professional advice as getting the quantities correct for you can be tricky.) Various psychiatric drugs such as SSRI's may help correct underlying problems like depression, and I understand there are other things out there that help take away the desire to drink, in some cases by interferring with the "high". One problem is that AA dominates treatment in the United States, and for the most part AA old-timers tend to be very anti-medication. So you need to shop around for an enlightened doctor who can think for himself.

BTW, snuff isn't exactly safe. It may be better than smoking but it can also cause cancer.

This site might also help. One of the promising newer drugs out there is Naltrexone. Other drugs are in the works.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/meds/Medical_Treatments_for_Alcoholism.htm

But in general, once cravings are under control, there tends to be an emphasis on trying to find nonpharmaceutical ways of dealing with stress as much as possible. Usually the same techniques are advocated as you'd be taught in a mood disorders clinic, as I mentioned above: exercise, meditation, PLANNED daily activities which include both at least one "mastery" task like paying bills and at least one pleasureable activity, and such newer techniques as DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy.) I know that last one sounds like something for Karl Marx's psychiatrist, but it's actually a great way to deal with emotions without getting yourself in trouble. More "normal" people should know about it. Other approaches include CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and RET (rational emotive therapy, invented by Albert Ellis.)

The point is that you need your whole brain to combat stress intelligently, so anything that depresses your ability to think when stressed is only going to be destructive in the long run. You might as well hit yourself in the head with a hammer as get hammered. Either way, your problems are still going to be waiting for you the next day, assuming you do wake up.

Thanks allot OomYaaqub, you have a great study on the particular issue and all the readers got much positive information from your comments.

You are absolutely right that the problems or stresses can never be finished by the use of alcohol or any other drug and all of us will face their problems on the next on going day.

I took a great lesson from your comments. thanks

James - stop thinking that the rest of the world has access to refrigeration and all the comforts you have.

Food stores in Puerto Rico have to open 1/2 a day EVERY day because a good portion of the citizens still do not have access to refrigeration.

There are people in this country who also do not have access to proper food storage methods.

I included the Bible references because it has been made clear in many of your articles how religion rules your world.

There are people that should never take a drink.

Alcohol has falsely been promoted as the ONLY way to have fun. Drinking alcohol and smoking were promoted as being the only way to be an "adult".

You are certainly entitled to your Temperance League attitude. Please do not be disingenuous about the part your religion plays in your belief.

Yes, they do. Horses, for instance, will eat fermented apples. And I've seen them visibly sick from it, or so intoxicated that they wouldn't be able to escape from a predator had they been anywhere but their safe fenced field. Of course nobody is suggesting we ban all fermented foods so that isn't a valid argument. Beverage alcohol is an unnecessary risk. I am against prohibition for drugs in general, but I don't think alcohol deserves it's current unique status as the ONLY legal intoxicant, when in reality it is one of the most dangerous. Most people would be better off with pot, for example, although it too can be abused.

I doubt James' point is to substitute mj for alcohol.

I don't care what James's point is. I agree that substituting one drug for another is not wise. If you abuse one drug, you are at high risk of abusing another, despite the number of alcoholics on the "marijuana maintenance plan." But our current laws lead people to assume that alcohol is "safer" than other drugs, which is totally false, and in fact very dangerous. If you are going to only use a drug a few times a year, on major celebrations or holidays, it would be better if it were marijuana, and that is an objective fact. It is physically impossible to overdose on marijuana, but many have died due to alcohol poisoining. For this reason and this reason alone, SSRI drugs like Prozac have gained favor with psychiatrists even though they are no more effective than any other antidepressants, and for many people they are less effective. Dangerou8sness counts. Alcohol can be fatal.

You translate one drink to abuse. We agree that no one should abuse alcohol.

A reference was made to the laughter at AA meetings. There is some at times. There is more crying about the effects of abuse. The assumption that no one at AA meetings ever drinks again is false.

There is a an old joke - Know the difference between drunks and alcoholics? Drunks go to bars, alcoholics go to meetings.

Refrigeration or the lack of it has absolutely nothing to do with drinking beverage alcohol, so why the heck is it even being brought up except to intentionally confuse the issue? There are plenty of people in the world who lack refrigeration and who do NOT drink, although they have such fermented products as yogurt. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever been arrested for "driving under the influence of yogurt" or "miso in public."

Yes, and that's probably why their use was so common in the ancient world. They DID water down the wine, but in all probabilty the alcohol content, however small, still killed a lot of the germs. For them, it may have been a necessity given the knowledge and technology of the time.

I don't know if I can agree with your statement that our current laws lead people to assume that alcohol is somehow "safe" regardless of usage...look at the conversation here...and, in particular, your statements. You then move on to suggest mj is safer then alcohol....have I rejected that premise somewhere? On the other hand...one rarely hears of people smoking, or injecting, mj just for the taste...In other words...mj is certainly used for one reason only.

Now to the use of anti-depressants? I would suggest that alcohol might, at times, be a better alternative. As Dr. Know addressed above...and I did prior to that regarding another analogy....it's a bit of jump from one drink to full blown alcoholism...and from a couple of beers with friends to throwing up on the carpet.

...In other words...mj is certainly used for one reason only.

Not quite true. I have personally shared my own house with people who would take ONE toke at a party just to relax. They weren't any more high from that toke than someone who drinks wine "for the taste". Lots of people enjoy the aroma of MJ very much, even some who don't actually smoke it. And of course thousands of people really DO use it for medicinal or in some cases life saving purposes.

It's odd to say that alcohol is an alternative to antidepressants when alcohol IS a depressant, though. Better alternatives include exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy, owning pets, volunteering, funding at least one pleasureable thing to do per day, and the like. This is what they teach you in actual mood disorders clinics, at any rate.

I have personally shared my own house with people who would take ONE toke at a party just to relax

And? How does that refute my statement?

And of course thousands of people really DO use it for medicinal or in some cases life saving purposes.

Yes, the "high" it produces can result, apparently, in a number of medicinal benefits.

You suggest they are "better" alternatives...you're anti-drinking...I get it...I'm against abuse of alcohol...we are not going to agree.

Socrates, it refutes the statement that somehow "unlike alcohol" nobody uses MJ for any reason except to get intoxicated. My friend who took one toke to "be sociable" and "relax a little" was using the exact same argument as every "social drinker" in history. My war is not so much with alcohol per se as with what I call "alcoholic exceptionalism" -- the totally false notion that alcohol is different from all the other, supposedly evil drugs out there. Why do we even use the redundant phrase "drugs and alcohol" when alcohol is already a drug? It's like saying "people and Mexicans" which suggests the speaker doesn't consider Mexicans to be people. All drugs should be called what they are, drugs! The fact that some happen to be part of our culture while others are relatively alien to it should NOT be allowed to cloud our thinking. Neither should the fact that some are smoked, some snorted, and others ingested in liquid form be considered relevant.

Let's be honest. If alcoholic beverages had no intoxicating properties whatsoever, would ANYONE drink them "because I love the taste"? Does even fine French wine really taste good to a normal person, or is it an acquired taste, usually acquired by status-speaking snobs? Children always hate the taste of alcohol unless it is disguised. I come from a culture in which children are sometimes given small quantities of wine on the Sabbath and holidays, and trust me, even if they pretend otherwise in their eagerness to seem grown up, they'd really rather have a soft drink. (Granted, kosher wine is particularly awful, but I bet even in France, the kids would rather have a soft drink.) Please don't compare to this to childish adversion to, say, vegetables, because that's exaggerated. My own kids loved vegetables, especially carrots and green vegetables, from infancy. So have most kids I've seen--they might hate a particular strongly flavored vegetable, but they don't hate ALL of them. They DO hate ALL alcohol.

I see nothing in your post which refutes my statements. I do see areas where you mispresent my statements, your previous statements, the statements of others, the subject as well as the erection of various strawmen. This suggests that further discussion will not be very productive. I therefore suggest we have both had the opportunity to present our case(s) and should leave it at that.